Has Impostor Syndrome ever crept up and knocked on your door making you think something like this, “What makes me different from the others in my niche?”
Well let’s perk up those ears as we listen to today’s episode, shall we? Our guest today on the No Mercy Business Podcast is Jackie Sunga. Jackie is a conversion copywriter and brand voice expert specializing in sales copy and launch strategy.
*And no, we are not talking about the process of copyright with the little ‘C’ in the circle symbol.
Copy-writing is the practice of using words in a way that it motivates the reader to do something– like buy. Words can hurt and heal, but Jackie knows that words have the power to sell, too. Jackie takes it a step further and answers that question from the beginning for us. What makes you different from others in your area of expertise? The simple answer is you. Your story is unique. You may offer similar services as someone else, but your story (your voice) is ultimately what will connect with your audience.
Join Jackie and Emily as they discuss Jackie’s experience with her clients as she helps them highlight and find their brand voice and incorporate it into their websites, email sequences, landing pages, social media, and more!
Brand Voice & Conversion Copywriting
Jackie Sunga is a certified master marketer, conversion copywriter, and brand voice strategist. She helps new and established online course creators, coaches, and creative service providers productize their knowledge and launch educational courses, coaching programs, and powerful brands with strategic messaging that scales their businesses.
Growing her own business to surpass six figures in one year, Jackie specializes in launching, sales copy, and brand voice to help her clients attract perfect-fit customers with customer-first messaging. Her approach to sales copy is strategic, data-driven, and fueled by deep customer empathy, so clients can sell from a place of integrity.
Jackie lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband and two dogs.
Connect with Jackie
Well, hello, and thank you so much for being here for another week of the No Mercy business podcast. This is your host Emily Woodruff. And I have another exciting guest for you today. I have Jackie Sangha with us, Jackie, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you
Unknown Speaker 00:18
do? Sure. Well, thank you so much for having me on the show, Emily. I am conversion copywriter and I specialize in sales copy for websites and course launches as well as helping entrepreneurs with their brand voice architecture. I love helping course creators, coaches, consultants really bridge the gap between their expertise and their audience with customer first messaging. So whether I’m teaching new entrepreneurs or whether I’m writing for big brands, I really love helping my clients find the words that will help them attract their perfect fit people and sell with integrity.
Unknown Speaker 00:58
That’s so neat. How did you how did you get involved with this type of work?
Unknown Speaker 01:02
Good questions. So I was a before starting my online business, I was a music teacher before. So my last year of teaching, I was a teacher for five years. And during that time, in 2017, I was I was asked to be a social media manager for a music nonprofit. And I knew I really wanted to have digital marketing experience. And back then my sister was also an entrepreneur, and she had also gotten into email marketing and copywriting. And she was like, you know that email marketing is more effective than social media. So I was like, Okay, this really motivated me to study it on my own. And so fast forward a couple years, I actually enrolled part time in grad school to be a therapist. And while I was in grad school, I met all these awesome therapists online who had really great accounts like social media accounts, wanted to I like would purchase there while I was still teaching, like I would, I would purchase some of their things. And I was like, you know, if there’s anybody who I would love to write for, to help them really connect, like their expertise to more people, it would be the therapist. So then, I actually had one of my first clients was a therapist, and she was really excited that I was in grad school for her exact niche or degree too. And so that was one of my first paid projects. And I had ended up writing literally all of her copy, like it was her sales page, or sales, emails, her social media captions. And I plan everything in Asana too, and it ended up we ended up tripling her sales goal, which was so awesome. And I was like, Cool. I’m, I can definitely do this. I want to do this again. Yeah, like that. So that’s my story. In a nutshell.
Unknown Speaker 02:52
That’s so great. So what is you mentioned brand voice and brand voice guides, when we were talking earlier? What does that look like for your clients?
Unknown Speaker 03:03
Yeah, good question. So often, I find the, it’s, I don’t just work with therapists anymore. I love working with all different types, of course creators and, and experts. And a lot of the times not all the time, I see some of them who will invest in custom branding, like visual branding, and imagery, which is beautiful, right, but they often don’t have the same thing for their words. And so where I come in my one of my services is creating a brand messaging and brand voice guide, so that they can really have and feel super confident and how they want their values to be expressed. And how to resonate with their perfect fit people in a way even though you know, if they have lots of different competitors, there’s always a secret sauce. Right? And that always comes in through either, like the experience that they’ve had. And, you know, I I’ve had, I had one client who was a therapist, she was like, you know, so concerned, like, all of these people have the same certifications and the same degrees that I do. And I was like, well, nobody has your story, right? And then you have your framework that you’ve created based on the results that you can get your clients. And so I really love helping people find what is your unique framework? What is that unique process? And how can we explain that so simply and so easily so that you know nobody can copy that right nobody can copy your story ranking copy the way that you help your clients achieve results because you created it right so yeah, so my my brand messaging brand voice guide it covers a lot of like the messaging angles that you would put in marketing, but also the very like technical things like style and tone and again, stories and like the rhythm of your words. So to make it easier for everyone to remember my spring brand voice framework is star so it’s style tone, anecdotes and
Unknown Speaker 05:00
Rhythm. That’s so great. That’s so cute.
Unknown Speaker 05:03
Easy to remember.
Unknown Speaker 05:04
Yeah, no, I love it. And I love I love. I just love all that I forgot what I was gonna
Unknown Speaker 05:15
you know how it goes? Um, I know that’s really neat. And I really like how how it pairs with regular branding, like what you traditionally think of as branding. That’s a really unique service. And I like how it incorporates your story, like you say, it’s, it’s kind of just hopeful that you’re right, nobody else has your testimony, or has your has the walk that you’ve been on, they haven’t seen the same things as you. That’s something that I encounter a lot as a branding designer as well. How do I know that you’re the right one for me? And I’m like, you don’t? You don’t know. It’s just gonna take time for us to get used to each other and to sometimes you just don’t jive perfectly well with someone else. And that’s okay. And I like I like to tell people, it’s okay. Like, it’s not, you’re not gonna break my heart. If I’m, if I’m not the branding designer for you, I obviously want to be. But if we can’t talk to each other on the same level, if we can’t connect, if we can’t see eye to eye, I would rather you be with somebody who’s going to make your world turn upside down, you know, and do the things that you Yeah, that can tell YOUR story the way that you want it to be told.
Unknown Speaker 06:30
Yes. And that’s a rave too, right? Because it’s like, you know, it’s, there comes a point in business where like, if you’re just getting started, and you’re like, you know, I think a lot of new service providers will take on the, the they’ll take on any client. And then as as business gets more mature and whatnot, and it gets a little easier to find clients, then it’s it’s easier to step into that courage. I definitely remember for sure, well, how how I would have those conversations in my head of like, should I take this client? Or should I? Yeah, I know. But it’s always better to say no, for your, for your mental sanity and my opinion to Yeah, to you and what you value. And that will resonate with the customer, too.
Unknown Speaker 07:21
I totally agree. And I mean, you’re mentioning values, like there’s a lot of people who are, especially in Christian based organizations, I think are faith based organizations that you’re scared to tell somebody No, because maybe their brand or their company doesn’t align with what you stand for. I’m, I’m very much in favor of saying, Hey, I appreciate you so much for reaching out, I just don’t think that we’re a good fit. Yeah, and a lot of times, they will just say, I appreciate you being honest with me. Yeah, sorry that it didn’t work out. But that’s okay. And they want to work with somebody who believes in the same things as them too. So, right. You know, it’s not as terrifying as it seems, I think. And I, a lot of people laugh at me, because like, I’ve only been doing my branding business for about a year. So when I share stories like that I’m not afraid to to turn people away. I’ve been an entrepreneur for over 10 years. So I’ve seen it in so many different ways. And professionally, we have to turn people away too. So like, I just, it’s all the same to me, you know?
Unknown Speaker 08:34
I hear you, I hear you. So
Unknown Speaker 08:36
how do you use your faith within your business? How does that coincide? How you interact with clients and such?
Unknown Speaker 08:43
Yeah, great question. So I would say my, my business isn’t necessarily like, I will only work with Christian clients. I, I got this from one of my friends from one of my dears mentors, who she’s a therapist, and you know, her practice isn’t, you know, it doesn’t have the Christian like sign outside of the door. But you know, she, she embodies it so well. And that is always been my inspiration for things in terms of, you know, if I’m having a lot of anxiety, not, I remember, like, when I first first establish the business and just having remember, like really, truly having a lot of anxiety about about this girl and leaning onto my face during that time period was just so crucial. And being able to pray and like really develop a deeper sense of trust, not just in the Lord but also like in myself. Because it can be so easy or we don’t realize when we’re first just when we’re starting out how much you know, it’s really up to us to make all of the decisions, right. Yeah, it’s like, you know, whether or not someone is hired a bit Just coach. I mean, it’s kind of cheesy
Unknown Speaker 10:03
to say, but it’s like the Lord is my business coach. Yeah, no matter who I hire, yeah, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s like,
Unknown Speaker 10:14
we’re human we can make, we can make decisions that can go either way. And the truth of the matter is, like, the uncertainty of it is, that’s the only thing that’s certain, right? The only thing that’s certain is the uncertainty. And I incorporate my faith, the best is how I, how I cope with the uncertainty and how I, and how I’m able to manage that. And granted, like, I have hired some incredible mentors and business coaches in the past, but ultimately, you know, it’s not really their job to tell me exactly like what to do, like, I want to make my make the decisions that feel best to me, you know. And so, I can not separate my prayer life from that at all. Because if I’m, like, super stressed or anxious about something, then I’m like, I know, I’m not going to be able to make the best decision for your my family, etc. So I could say a lot more about that. But
Unknown Speaker 11:17
that’s no, I love it, I love it. And I think that’s something too, that’s a neat thing. I don’t work specifically with Christians only, either. But there have been times where there’s been clients that have approached me and I’m like, I, it’s just not, it’s so different from what I believe in that I just can’t do it. So I’m not afraid to, you know, work with non Christians by any means. You know, just to kind of throw that disclaimer out there. But, um, I, I think that people forget, or don’t realize, maybe when they’re working with Christians, how involved we really get with our clients. And like you say, you can’t separate your prayer life, from what goes on in your business we have, I have a partner that I work with on some web development things. And we have a client right now that has kind of said, I just need to be praying about this, I need to, you know, go to the Lord before I sign this contract. And we’re like, hey, just so you know, like, we are both on the same page, we pray together over these things. Like, it’s important, and I’m glad to hear it and want you to know that we’re on the same team. And, you know, it’s just really neat to see when people do and when they’re bold about sharing their faith in their business, and I just love it.
Unknown Speaker 12:35
I love that. I love that too. And I think it’s really special when you can find clients who really have this who have that boldness, as you’re saying, and who are who feel comfortable to share that with you. Yeah, I and even with my clients who are not Christian, it’s it’s always really, it’s wonderful when we can talk about that, and be human with each other. Yeah, really connects us together in in ways that’s beyond the actual work. And I think that adds just a rich layer to the relationship because you ultimately, I want to have relationships that I can I can lean on for a long time, you know, yeah, I want to have clients that i i Come back to or that like we were having conversations beyond just our work together. Yeah. And it’s beautiful when that happens. So I love it. I love it.
Unknown Speaker 13:34
So how do you like what is what’s the first step that you would suggest an entrepreneur takes when they when they’re considering rebranding their business?
Unknown Speaker 13:43
Yeah, so one of the biggest things is to make sure that you’re making decisions from a place of rest, and not making decisions from a place of being stressed out or burnt out. Because your brain is not in the best place to think deeply about the future and how your decisions now are going to impact the future. And, you know, it can be hard to take time off, right? If we’re so used to, you know, wearing all the hats and things like that if you don’t have an assister if you have one assistant or whatnot, yeah. Having that capacity, and then really deeply thinking about the mission of your business, and how has that mission changed? And when you think about your business, if you’re a personal brand, for example, right? It can be hard to be like, Okay, well, what does my business stand for? And can that mission be customer focused? Right, so I like to give an example of one of my favorite brands, which is a funny water company called Liquid death. Their mission is threefold it is to make Compute or get people to drink more water, make them laugh and kill plastic pollution. So it’s super easy to remember. Right? Yeah. incise. And so I was, and so if if you’re going through a rebrand, is it easy for you to state your mission statement like why your company even exists the purpose of its being right? Very simply because if you can’t, or if you’re, if there’s something that’s making it difficult to express concisely or clearly, then that means there’s some a little bit of deeper work to be done there. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people will say, like, think about, you know, your vision and what and, you know, what do you want your life to look like, that’s so important, right, to allow yourself to dream. But I also like to make sure that we’re, we’re not, we’re not divorcing our customers from that vision to and how to help their their lives get easier. And transform, I think it’s a one sided perspective, when you hear some business coaches talk about like, oh, the vision for your life or life, your life. But you know, there are customers who are affected by those decisions. Yeah. So what is that new value that you want to bring to your, to your customers? And why is that important thing, just really coming back down to the why? Because then once that foundation is so solid, it’s going to be so much easier to it’s going to be easier for your marketing, it’s gonna be easier for your messaging, your team onboarding, your operations, and your overall customer experience and the delivery of your services or products, right? So programs, too. So that was really a long winded answer. But it has to start there. And because you know, it will get so much easier to sell your services or the the rebrand of those service suite, whatever it is, right? It’s going to be so much easier to sell and think about big revenue goals. Because you’re tied to a deeper mission. I think that a lot of business owners even in their, you know, even even people who are older than you and I are right. And if they’ve been in business for a long time, right? It can be easy to be like, oh, yeah, like I’ve already done that. Right? Or like, Yeah, but but, you know, if I noticed that there was any hesitancy in terms of like, okay, like thinking about money and thinking about your revenue goals, and like the growth of your business in the upcoming year, it’s probably because there’s still a lot of like ourselves wrapped up into position and not other people. Let me think about serving other people it just gets so it then becomes like, stupid, easy, you know what I mean? Yeah, not talk about this, or how can we not serve in this way? So anyway, long winded answer.
Unknown Speaker 17:58
I know. But
Unknown Speaker 17:59
no, it’s good. That’s good. I’m glad it wasn’t just a one word answer.
Unknown Speaker 18:04
Yeah, sure. Cool.
Unknown Speaker 18:07
What else? What else? Is there anything in particular that you would want our audience or our listeners to be able to know about you before we head out today? Oh,
Unknown Speaker 18:17
um, well, if you have ever made the mistake of not clarifying your your mission in that way, you’re not alone. And to think about your brand identity as three fold, right? You have your values, which, you know, it’s a really good test to see if your values are clear when you ask like an assistant or ask your customers or people who follow you on social media, what they are. So first, your values, what is your value identity? Is that clear? And then your verbal identity, your verbal brand identity? Is it clear what problems that you solve? What customer problems that you’ve solved? What is it clear what the transformation is? Is it clear how you speak to, you know, why or what is it clear how you speak to other solutions in terms of like your own positioning in the market, right? And then then when when it’s easy to talk about that and your brand voice and how your own brand personality is expressed through words, then cohesively it makes sense to be like, okay, cool. Here’s my visual identity. So it’s a beautiful, like Venn diagram, if you can picture like three circles, your value identity, your verbal identity, and your visual identity to help you honestly create this brand that not only feels like you, but that also resonates with your perfect fit person. So my construe rebranding all of those are that’s what I would say is the secret sauce.
Unknown Speaker 19:56
That’s awesome. Where can our listeners find you and connect with Do
Unknown Speaker 20:01
so my website is Jackie sangha.co And you can also connect with me on Instagram at Jackie setup co no dot Hopefully that’s not good evening. And for listening today your listeners can enjoy a brand voice freebie which I have over at Jackie center.co/brand-voice. So that’s going to help you with your verbal brand identity in 90 minutes or less.
Unknown Speaker 20:31
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. It was really great to chat with you.
Unknown Speaker 20:35
Thank you so much for having me, Emily. It was my pleasure. Yeah.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai